Comments on: Covenants http://www.ajschwanz.com/2009/04/17/covenants/ Wed, 06 Jan 2010 05:00:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Judy http://www.ajschwanz.com/2009/04/17/covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-10583 Judy Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:14:36 +0000 http://www.ajschwanz.com/?p=344#comment-10583 AJ, You bring up some good questions. I've been mulling over my own experiences on several levels. I was dedicated in the Greenleaf Friends Church, but barely lived there. It was the Medford church, who did not have a formal commitment to me, who truly nurtured me from early childhood through college, and then later did the same for my children. (One of whom was dedicated in Eugene.) For many years I viewed the ceremony of baby dedication as a statement on the part of the parents that they recognized that their child is a gift from God, and they would need God's help in raising him/her. The people of the church, in my view, were witnesses to that testimony, much as they were witnesses at my wedding. It was only later that I listened to the charge to the congregation, and became a participant in agreeing to be supportive of the dedicating parents. And you're right. Perhaps many of us haven't really thought about the extent of that commitment, and the tangible ways we could exercise it. In my case, many people did encourage me over the years, and others took a personal interest in me, and variously made me feel that my life was important to them in some way. Sometimes a college age class was provided, or some social activities that drew us into interaction with older adults. But what was meaningful to me was the casual conversation that would occasionally take place involving an adult asking me questions about my life. I know that happened also for my children. What I'm not sure about, is whether I have done much of that for the children of other families. One obstacle for me has been my determination to allow people their "personal space." I am not a nosy person and probably give the impression that I am disinterested in other people's lives, when really I'm just trying not to pry or make them feel uncomfortable. As for the question of staying connected with young adults post high school, that is one that has bothered me since I was a college student. I think one part of the issue is that many young people feel a sense of loneliness and disconnect during that stage of life, and we older adults keenly remember that. We didn't know how to deal with it then, and we still don't! It certainly does not mean that we don't want to embrace our young friends and help them feel loved and included and needed. And so it is important for you and others to keep talking among yourselves and to us, (even if we seem to be deaf), and to encourage your younger friends to keep talking. AJ,
You bring up some good questions. I’ve been mulling over my own experiences on several levels. I was dedicated in the Greenleaf Friends Church, but barely lived there. It was the Medford church, who did not have a formal commitment to me, who truly nurtured me from early childhood through college, and then later did the same for my children. (One of whom was dedicated in Eugene.) For many years I viewed the ceremony of baby dedication as a statement on the part of the parents that they recognized that their child is a gift from God, and they would need God’s help in raising him/her. The people of the church, in my view, were witnesses to that testimony, much as they were witnesses at my wedding. It was only later that I listened to the charge to the congregation, and became a participant in agreeing to be supportive of the dedicating parents. And you’re right. Perhaps many of us haven’t really thought about the extent of that commitment, and the tangible ways we could exercise it.
In my case, many people did encourage me over the years, and others took a personal interest in me, and variously made me feel that my life was important to them in some way. Sometimes a college age class was provided, or some social activities that drew us into interaction with older adults. But what was meaningful to me was the casual conversation that would occasionally take place involving an adult asking me questions about my life. I know that happened also for my children. What I’m not sure about, is whether I have done much of that for the children of other families.
One obstacle for me has been my determination to allow people their “personal space.” I am not a nosy person and probably give the impression that I am disinterested in other people’s lives, when really I’m just trying not to pry or make them feel uncomfortable.
As for the question of staying connected with young adults post high school, that is one that has bothered me since I was a college student. I think one part of the issue is that many young people feel a sense of loneliness and disconnect during that stage of life, and we older adults keenly remember that. We didn’t know how to deal with it then, and we still don’t! It certainly does not mean that we don’t want to embrace our young friends and help them feel loved and included and needed. And so it is important for you and others to keep talking among yourselves and to us, (even if we seem to be deaf), and to encourage your younger friends to keep talking.

]]> By: Cherice http://www.ajschwanz.com/2009/04/17/covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-10582 Cherice Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:24:22 +0000 http://www.ajschwanz.com/?p=344#comment-10582 Amen again! This is obviously something Joel and I talk about a lot... What's up with that gap after high school? Yes, some of it is because younger young adults move away, want to explore other congregations etc., but like you're saying, it's also because there is no place for young adults in the life of most communities. Some congregations try to remedy this by reaching out to ONLY young adults, but that just compartmentalizes age groups further. I think you're right that we need each other to remind us of who we are, who we're becoming, and what we're about. I think one of the major things in our YM is that our youth program is so good at helping us listen to Christ and encouraging us to truly live our faith, and then we get into the "adult" stuff of YM and it seems (not saying it is this way always but it seems) like the "adults" have given up on their ideals and settled for less than radical discipleship. So what's the point of going to worship? What's the point in being involved in the community? All it is, is a social club--it seems. It's not always that way, but I find myself slipping into such patterns all too easily now with a small child I to keep safe and fed and think about college and retirement so I don't drive him nuts when he has to support his aged mother when she's 96...of course by then he'll be 70, but that's beside the point... Anyway, agreed. So work needs to be done on both sides, and I like your sense of being a bridge. I hope we can start to bridge that gap a bit better all together, so it's not just one more thing that some of us do individually, as you say. Amen again! This is obviously something Joel and I talk about a lot… What’s up with that gap after high school? Yes, some of it is because younger young adults move away, want to explore other congregations etc., but like you’re saying, it’s also because there is no place for young adults in the life of most communities. Some congregations try to remedy this by reaching out to ONLY young adults, but that just compartmentalizes age groups further. I think you’re right that we need each other to remind us of who we are, who we’re becoming, and what we’re about.

I think one of the major things in our YM is that our youth program is so good at helping us listen to Christ and encouraging us to truly live our faith, and then we get into the “adult” stuff of YM and it seems (not saying it is this way always but it seems) like the “adults” have given up on their ideals and settled for less than radical discipleship. So what’s the point of going to worship? What’s the point in being involved in the community? All it is, is a social club–it seems. It’s not always that way, but I find myself slipping into such patterns all too easily now with a small child I to keep safe and fed and think about college and retirement so I don’t drive him nuts when he has to support his aged mother when she’s 96…of course by then he’ll be 70, but that’s beside the point…

Anyway, agreed. So work needs to be done on both sides, and I like your sense of being a bridge. I hope we can start to bridge that gap a bit better all together, so it’s not just one more thing that some of us do individually, as you say.

]]> By: Joel http://www.ajschwanz.com/2009/04/17/covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-10576 Joel Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:39:42 +0000 http://www.ajschwanz.com/?p=344#comment-10576 Right on, friend. I've seen the same thing among those I grew up with, and have received the same answers. Many times I hear those people speaking to the lack of action behind the words, and that it really is a formality, not to be taken as seriously as really living something out. In some ways it brings up the issue of functional atheism for me: folks who go to church to feel good, but their lives reflect no change and formation that revolves around listening to and following the Present Teacher. This is not to point fingers, but to state the facts. I've been a victim to this way of living as well. I appreciate you bringing this up, it feels like one of those issues that xians are too scared of, like money. No one talks about it, and not many ask why that is. I think you're right, in that part of the issue is larger congregations where faces blur in the pews from service to service. I also think part of it is people's fear of change. Following the example of Jesus is no easy task, especially when we are told up front to expect being persecuted (a nice way of saying slapped around). I'm sure there are many other facets to this issue, but it seems more and more pressing. Especially when you see so many of your own peers wander off from the "family" you thought you were. Not even speaking in terms of "losing the faith", but simply giving up on the structure. This is why I appreciate Quaker's perspective on calling churches meeting houses. It's an intentional reminder that it is not about the structure, or the systems that we feel we have been led to in the past (and at the present), but that the Spirit of God is truly what is calling us. And I think this is more of what people (I know I am) are really wanting. The hard part is seeing many people throw it all out and start over. The continuity is lost and progression is slower without the networking of the family you once had. I struggle a lot with how we hold that tension of asking the harder questions of why we do what we do, but from within the frame work so that it will hopefully continue to transform and be present to God. Well, that's a long comment. Thanks for bring this up. Right on, friend. I’ve seen the same thing among those I grew up with, and have received the same answers. Many times I hear those people speaking to the lack of action behind the words, and that it really is a formality, not to be taken as seriously as really living something out. In some ways it brings up the issue of functional atheism for me: folks who go to church to feel good, but their lives reflect no change and formation that revolves around listening to and following the Present Teacher. This is not to point fingers, but to state the facts. I’ve been a victim to this way of living as well. I appreciate you bringing this up, it feels like one of those issues that xians are too scared of, like money. No one talks about it, and not many ask why that is. I think you’re right, in that part of the issue is larger congregations where faces blur in the pews from service to service. I also think part of it is people’s fear of change. Following the example of Jesus is no easy task, especially when we are told up front to expect being persecuted (a nice way of saying slapped around). I’m sure there are many other facets to this issue, but it seems more and more pressing. Especially when you see so many of your own peers wander off from the “family” you thought you were. Not even speaking in terms of “losing the faith”, but simply giving up on the structure. This is why I appreciate Quaker’s perspective on calling churches meeting houses. It’s an intentional reminder that it is not about the structure, or the systems that we feel we have been led to in the past (and at the present), but that the Spirit of God is truly what is calling us. And I think this is more of what people (I know I am) are really wanting. The hard part is seeing many people throw it all out and start over. The continuity is lost and progression is slower without the networking of the family you once had. I struggle a lot with how we hold that tension of asking the harder questions of why we do what we do, but from within the frame work so that it will hopefully continue to transform and be present to God.
Well, that’s a long comment. Thanks for bring this up.

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