Comments on: Quakers & Authority

By: Aj Schwanz » Blog Archive » Next Steps: The First Steps

Aj Schwanz » Blog Archive » Next Steps: The First Steps — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:42:58 +0000

[...] don’t have a pulpit, but I do have this blog that can be used as a place to share my story, explain some thoughts, [...]

By: Walt Everly

Walt Everly — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:11:02 +0000

Not being privy to the responses you’re getting, I can only wonder: is it really a matter of people not trusting our leadership, or is it a matter of not sharing the vision of a need for change?

I know of many people who like NFC the way it is and don’t see a need for change. This disruption of the status quo makes them nervous and insecure.

Others may wish for different kinds of changes than those being proposed.

I’m sure Gregg would be bewildered and frustrated by the suggestion that the vision for the fast hasn’t been articulated from the pulpit to peoples’ satisfaction, but I suspect that’s the case – more than a lack of trust in authority.

Just wondering…

By: Allison

Allison — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:50:34 +0000

PS – INFJs and I seem to always always always be mutually attracted to each other. My roommate, my brother, my boyfriend, my best friend in this city… all are INFJs.

By: Luke

Luke — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:03:02 +0000

You got me right from the start, as I noticed my own Meyers-Briggs letters … we should start an INFJ group on facebook. Thanks for what you wrote. For some reason, NWYM and our churches don’t seem to follow well. I agree with you, and tend to put my trust in the decisions of the leaders. Even if I might not always agree I have to trust in their decision making and their being leaders in the church in the first place. It is also frustrating when people are upset with recommendations, without having wanted to be a part of the process. Some of what churches struggle with is a fear of failure, and a fear of the unknown. Who cares if we fail? What can we learn from the experience? I figure if we don’t do anything now, in a few years the situation will be so much worse, that we will have to call it a failure anyway. Unfortunately some folks have to hit rock bottom before they will accept that change needs to happen. So much for prophets, speakers of truth, being welcome in their own communities of faith. I was reminded Sunday that we also have to trust the work of the Holy Spirit, and that God actually knows what He is doing. For some that is hard to do. Thanks AJ for your thoughts.

By: Robin Mohr

Robin Mohr — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:58:31 +0000

On further reflection, I think that in other groups with more hierarchy, they might well be going ahead with the recommended changes, but that doesn’t mean people wouldn’t have all the same questions and concerns. They just wouldn’t have the same forum to express them.

One of the beauties of Quaker process is that you get more of the questions and arguments out in the open before you make the decision, rather than just having people grumbling in private after the fact.

There may/will still be some private grumbling in Quaker circles, but you’re less likely to have the subtle sabotage of people who felt unincluded in the decision making process who give lip service to approving the changes the leaders made but drag their feet every step of the way.

By: Robin Mohr

Robin Mohr — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:50:06 +0000

I just like reading this because it reminds me that Quaker have so much in common everywhere.

Robin M. (ESTP)

By: Allison

Allison — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:12:35 +0000

“religious denominations are not so much about theological agreements, but personality types. Quakers – introverted/contemplative.”

I think if Quakers are dominated by one type of personality, then we’ve got a big problem. Was George Fox an introvert? Is that why he travelled all over the place, barging into other houses of worship, singing while being persecuted and jailed, healing people? That doesn’t seem very introverted to me.

I am an ENFP and really love the religion, but I think there is a difference between silent worship and quietism as a culture. One is our religion. The other is Quakerism the culture.

By: Michelle

Michelle — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:56:10 +0000

AJ-
Thank you for speaking boldly about these issues. I have to admit, that even though I knew about the Next Steps meetings and have good friends that were on the committee-I too at times felt like things were being kept kind of “hush hush” until you made the recommendation to the elders. I’m not sure why. But, I need to add that I DO trust the authority in our church. I really respect the elders and I wish, like you seem to, that once a group has spent this amount of time praying and discerning about what they feel is best for our church body that we could just move forward. Honestly, the business meetings make me crazy. The slowness of the Quaker way of processing and discussing, and recommending and more processing, and more discussion leaves me frustrated. COULD WE JUST DO IT! (Of course I see the positive side to all of this -but my “let’s get it done” personality -likes action) I also feel that change is changeable. If we try something and it doesn’t work- hey, we can change back, we can change to something different. God will understand. We don’t always hear Him correctly- with Grace-it will be ok. I am faithful that He would forgive us, help us and redeem us. I too pray that God would unite us-and give us trust in one another. I feel the Spirit trying to move-will we let Him?

By: Dren Notes » Blog Archive » Randomness: Yoyos and Nonos

Dren Notes » Blog Archive » Randomness: Yoyos and Nonos — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:12:32 +0000

[...] wrote a kinda heavy post on my other blogs, so to balance it out, I’m going to blog random funniness on this [...]